{"id":367452,"date":"2024-08-08T08:00:59","date_gmt":"2024-08-08T07:00:59","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.gaytimes.com\/?p=367452"},"modified":"2024-08-07T11:15:18","modified_gmt":"2024-08-07T10:15:18","slug":"kate-nash-9-sad-symphonies-cover-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.gaytimes.com\/music\/kate-nash-9-sad-symphonies-cover-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Kate Nash: \u2018People seeing the exploration of gender as a threat to feminism have it wrong\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

The British singer-songwriter speaks with GAY TIMES<\/em> about her lauded fifth album, the need more for \u201cunion\u201d between feminists and trans people and the future of her cult queer comedy GLOW<\/em>.<\/p>\n

WORDS BY\u00a0SAM DAMSHENAS<\/strong>
\nPHOTOGRAPHY BY DORA PAPHIDES<\/strong>
\nFASHION BY RI\u0301ON HANNORA<\/strong>
\nMAKEUP BY OONAH ANDERSON<\/strong>
\nHAIR BY YO ALEXXI KRUIZ<\/strong>
\nSET DESIGN BY MACY TRIEU-DINGLE<\/strong>
\nSET ASSISTANTS ERELIN CRAY, DOM BLENCOWE<\/strong>
\nMOVEMENT DIRECTOR LIAM JOHN<\/strong>
\nLIGHTING ASSISTANT JOSH HAMMAREN<\/strong><\/p>\n

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\u201cRhonda would be such a good vampire slayer,\u201d Kate Nash (correctly) says of her Britannica wrestler-scientist in GLOW<\/em>. Minutes into the Zoom call, Buffy<\/em> is the main topic of conversation as a result of a)<\/strong> my incredibly fashion-forward season one t-shirt and b)<\/strong> Kate\u2019s shared love of Sarah Michelle Gellar\u2019s pop culture juggernaut, having previously paid tribute to the series\u2019 seminal musical episode, \u2018Once More, with Feeling<\/a>\u2019. This is all relevant, as the British singer-songwriter goes on to tell me that she was going \u2018Going Through the Motions\u2019 like the aforementioned heroine with her fifth studio album.<\/p>\n

9 Sad Symphonies<\/a>,<\/em> her first release in six years, is also Kate\u2019s darkest and most honest collection to date. Tackling heavy themes of existentialism and depression, it reflects how she \u201clost a spark for life\u201d over the past 12 years: \u201cAnd I\u2019ve always been a really sparky person. It\u2019s a weird feeling to be like, \u2018The gas is on so low and I just can\u2019t turn it up.\u2019\u201d Like Buffy felt from being expelled from heaven, Kate admits that she often thinks, \u201cWhat the fuck is the point in all this?\u201d<\/p>\n

All of the above awaits in the following interview, as well as Kate discussing the importance of her LGBTQIA+ relationships, from her loyal fans to her band members, the need for \u201cmore union\u201d between feminists and the trans community and why \u201cbreaking down gender is key in our fight to equality\u201d. Of course, an interview with Kate Nash wouldn\u2019t be complete without (as we teased in the opening sentence \u2013 it all comes full circle!) a chat about GLOW<\/em>, Netflix\u2019s cult comedy that deserves a revival in order for world peace to take full effect.<\/a><\/p>\n

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Kate, I was going to change my t-shirt before this interview, but then I remembered that you are, like me, a huge Buffy<\/em> freak.<\/h3>\n

Oh my god, I really am. Your t-shirt is iconic. That\u2019s the picture from season one, isn’t it?<\/p>\n

It is indeed. Before we get into it, I need to know your favourite episode \u2013 besides \u2018Once More, with Feeling\u2019.<\/h3>\n

Season five is my favourite. They\u2019re adults and totally established. Willow was in a gay relationship. It’s so sexualised with the witchcraft but in this really beautiful way. In season four, I always remembered her and Tara kissing, but they didn\u2019t. I actually spoke to [Amber Benson]<\/a> the actor who plays Tara, because they do kiss in season five, right?<\/p>\n

Yes, in \u2018The Body\u2019, the episode Buffy\u2019s mum dies.<\/h3>\n

It was a groundbreaking episode of TV. I love the season because you start with so much hope, and then Buffy dies. It\u2019s so heroic and scary, and it feels like she really evolves. It\u2019s almost like completely saying goodbye to your childhood. It is my childhood. Also, Spike\u2019s line, \u201cOut. For. A. Walk\u2026 Bitch\u201d is one of my favourites. But what is my favourite episode… What\u2019s yours?<\/p>\n

Season five is also my favourite, so I think it has to be the finale, \u2018The Gift\u2019.<\/h3>\n

That finale is fucking amazing. You know how people felt about Nirvana? That\u2019s what Buffy<\/em> was to me. And I feel like her secret identity was such a thing for queer people, and girls. For anyone who was considered an outcast or had to pretend to be something they\u2019re not, or if you weren’t out as a teen, there was something about Buffy that made you feel like, \u2018I connect to this\u2019.<\/p>\n

Kate, this could honestly just turn into a Buffy<\/em> interview, so we have to be careful.<\/h3>\n

We could just talk for 40 minutes and then start a new Zoom and talk about Buffy<\/em> for another 40 minutes.<\/p>\n

I am so down, Kate. So, how does it feel to have your first album out in six years?<\/h3>\n

It\u2019s flown by, really. I finished touring in 2019, then we started season four of GLOW<\/em> and then got shut down for the pandemic. The last few years have been really figuring out my team because I got all these offers from labels and management through TikTok. Isn\u2019t that crazy? It was like a flashback to my MySpace days. It took me time to find the right manager. I\u2019ve never had a good manager, but I do now.<\/p>\n

What did that decision look like, because I know in the past you\u2019ve spoken about your difficulties with record labels, as well as the gross men at the top?<\/h3>\n

It\u2019s a very shady industry. There\u2019s no HR department or someone to go to in times of trouble. The people you\u2019re supposed to go to in times of trouble are the ones that fuck you over; a bunch of, mostly, coke-heads that wanted to hang out with bands by being their manager. Part of that is the nature of the work, because it’s at night time, an environment that\u2019s not professional. There\u2019s a wildness in that that should stay, because music spaces are exciting and not traditional, but we do need things to change. I feel so lucky to finally be in this place. I\u2019m starting fresh in a weird way with the label, agent and new management. They\u2019re sane, passionate and thoughtful. It\u2019s so cool to feel good about a new team because they\u2019re just music nerds who love music. They\u2019re investing in me as a person and an artist, so that feels really safe.<\/p>\n

Sonically, 9 Sad Symphonies<\/em> feels light and hopeful, but the lyrics are quite the opposite. When I heard \u2018Millions of Heartbeats\u2019 I honestly thought, \u2018Fucking hell,\u2019 as I really resonated with the existential themes. Was that intentional, that dichotomy between the production and lyrics?<\/h3>\n

I like that juxtaposition with music sounding joyful. 60s girl groups always did that well. \u2018Stop! In The Name of Love\u2019 by The Supremes is at every wedding, yet it\u2019s about a woman begging her husband not to cheat on her anymore. [\u2018Millions of Heartbeats\u2019] is about the feeling of living in these catastrophic times, where we are constantly reading something fucking insane. I lost a spark for life, and I\u2019ve always been a really sparky person. It\u2019s a weird feeling to be like, \u2018The gas is on so low and I just can\u2019t turn it up.\u2019<\/p>\n

When people ask how you are, you don\u2019t want to be like, \u2018I\u2019m depressed and I don\u2019t understand my purpose.\u2019 You\u2019re getting numb and disassociating because you\u2019re like, \u2018How do I have hope in all of this?\u2019 It was important to start the record that way. It\u2019s like \u2018Going Through the Motions\u2019 from \u2018Once More, with Feeling\u2019. Buffy\u2019s like, \u2018I\u2019m slaying after being expelled from heaven, what the fuck is the point in all of this?\u2019<\/p>\n

I think about that video, \u2018The Pale Blue Dot\u2019,<\/a> where Earth looks tiny, like a speck of dust in the universe. It\u2019s the feeling I get when you look at the stars; everything matters and nothing matters. Yet here we are, fighting over somebody elbowing you on the tube when there\u2019s war and bloodshed. We have this one life, as far as we know. It\u2019s grappling with that like, \u2018No, I need to try\u2019. Earth is really fucking beautiful and it\u2019s amazing to be alive. And there\u2019s a version where I didn\u2019t make it this far. I just turned 37, and not everyone gets to turn 37. It\u2019s a privilege to age, grow and keep pushing forward. These are the themes I grappled with on the album, that lack of purpose.<\/p>\n

Is it weird that I\u2019m currently at a point where all of what you just said makes absolute sense to me?<\/h3>\n

No, I\u2019m glad. I feel relieved because sometimes I\u2019m like, \u2018Is this too much for people?\u2019 I think we\u2019ve got it so wrong with branding and individualism and identity on social media driving the self forward for maximum profit. What actually feeds your soul is community, and that\u2019s why I think queer people are a lot more in touch. I was talking about this with my trans friends, because there\u2019s actual safety in community. There\u2019s less in-built community with straight people because socialising is about\u2026 I mean, go to a fucking wedding. Everything\u2019s tied to a woman\u2019s purity of being sold to her husband by her dad. I have progressive friends but I\u2019ll go to their wedding like, \u2018Are you kidding me?\u2019<\/p>\n

Jane Goodall says you have to think locally, and that\u2019s how you make a difference in the world. You\u2019re one person, but you really fucking matter and your voice can impact so many lives. Local community work is really important in saving democracy. This guy, Robert D. Putnam, says you cannot save democracy by just focusing on saving democracy. I think about that on social media, where we all need to become the news.<\/p>\n

There is a thing about protest and spreading awareness, right? But there\u2019s also socialising and joining a community. He tells people to join a club because you\u2019ll be instantly participating in democracy without realising it. I love that idea because we\u2019re so focused on screaming at each other in really adolescent ways, and it\u2019s helping push people to the far right. Twitter has really helped the far right and fascism, and who\u2019s in charge of Twitter? Who is the glass ceiling of Twitter?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

I mean, my \u201cFor You\u201d page has been flooded recently with anti-trans accounts and rhetoric, when I do not engage with that kind of content whatsoever.<\/h3>\n

It\u2019s bait for you to get pissed off, so they can earn money from you being upset. It\u2019s scary to think that the world is being manipulated by these rich billionaire boys who read sci-fi novels and own tech companies. Like Elon Musk, who has designed cars to look like 80s sci-fi cars. I\u2019m not using Twitter anymore and I\u2019m not the main user on my Instagram account. I got a new phone and I\u2019ve got two-step verification, and because of that, my new phone wasn\u2019t the main phone. So, my manager is the main user. I was about to text my manager like, \u2018We need to swap it so I\u2019m the main user\u2019 but then thought, \u2018Wait, this will make my life so much better.\u2019 Now, I can\u2019t get into Instagram without my manager approving it, and I\u2019m really happy with that because I\u2019m not mindlessly scrolling. Instagram makes me dumber. I have this fear that, on my deathbed, I\u2019ll see an angel who will tell me I spent 14 years of my life on Instagram. Like, what a waste of my fucking life. I can\u2019t be headed towards 40 and still be addicted to it.<\/p>\n

All of this honesty is absolutely reflected in the album. You\u2019ve always been extremely authentic in your lyrics, but I don\u2019t think you\u2019ve ever been this existential and vulnerable, so this time around, how did it feel using music to communicate those feelings?<\/h3>\n

It\u2019s quite vulnerable. I\u2019m in therapy at the moment. I\u2019m also releasing music on a record label again and living in London, which I haven\u2019t done for 10 years. I came back because I needed to be here to release this music, but it\u2019s very confronting. I think playing shows and meeting the people that connect to your music is the thing that grounds you the most. It makes it all worth it. I\u2019ve been doing this since 2006, and there\u2019s so many parents coming with their kids. There\u2019s teenagers at my shows, which blows my mind. I\u2019ll have a 16-year-old that knows all the words and after the show they\u2019ll tell me, \u2018This makes me so nostalgic.\u2019 I\u2019m thinking, \u2018For when?! How old are you? How can you be nostalgic?\u2019 And they\u2019re like, \u2018For when I was eight.\u2019<\/p>\n

Made of Bricks<\/em> is this entry point to my music, kids can connect with \u2018Mariella\u2019 in essence and then grow up with it. At Rough Trade in Nottingham, a dad was with his daughter and he came up to me after to say, \u2018I didn\u2019t want to get emotional, but your music taught me how to be a better dad.\u2019 And he started crying. I\u2019m like, \u2018This is so surreal, where it\u2019s gotten to.\u2019 Now I\u2019ve got young adults that were teenagers when my album came out and they\u2019re pregnant, which is this amazing, mind-blowing thing. It\u2019s beautiful to be part of people\u2019s relationships in this intimate way.<\/p>\n

Speaking of fans, you’ve gained an extremely passionate following since your debut album \u2013 particularly amongst queer women. We have to acknowledge GLOW’s impact too. When did you first notice that support, and how would you describe your relationship with your fans?<\/h3>\n

I really noticed it the first time I went to San Francisco, and I noticed so many couples standing in front waiting for me to sing \u2018Nicest Thing\u2019. As soon as I did, they would start making out with each other and I was like, \u2018Yes!\u2019 I\u2019m a feminist and loads of my employees are trans and they\u2019re my best friends and family. We\u2019re having loads of conversations at the moment because there\u2019s healing to be done. Like, the way I\u2019ve talked about feminism in my shows over the past 18 years, I can see how that\u2019s impacted my fans. Recently at a show\u2026 I have lots of great male fans, but I also have a type of male fan that has limited emotional availability, and they don\u2019t know how to communicate. They get a bit too drunk and neg me during the show. I\u2019ve got to a point where, when that happens, my fans told him off and got him to stop. I don\u2019t even have to be the one to do it anymore. I\u2019ve thrown people out before because I\u2019ve had guys throw condoms at me during \u2018Foundations\u2019. I\u2019ve talked about feminism so much that my fans take care of it in a calm and amazing way. So, I just feel like this platform can be used for so much good. If you have queer and trans people in your life, we need to share the space because it makes us better people.<\/p>\n

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<\/em><\/p>

I love that \u2013 not the negging part, but how your fans come together. As you mentioned, you have lots of queer friends and band members. How important are those relationships to you?<\/h3>\n

My drummer Maxie, who is trans masc, and I have been talking about what we can do to show positive union and representation for trans fans and cis people at shows. At Glastonbury, he asked me if he could take his shirt off and I said \u2018Yeah, for sure\u2019. He came around to the front of the stage and we all took our end-of-show bow. He recently had top surgery and his scars were proudly on show in front of thousands of people. He saw queer people in the crowd that could identify with him, and there was something so powerful yet simple about that kind of validation he was able to give others \u2013 and himself. With the work we do as musicians, moments like that can be hugely impactful. Being on stage opens up potential for influence in a really beautiful and unique way.<\/p>\n

Feminism has taught me so much about how our differences are strengths, and how we each have the right to identify how we please, how we have to try and find ourselves out of the male gaze and patriarchy. Breaking down gender and intersectionality is key in our fight for equality. People seeing the exploration of gender as a threat to feminism have it wrong. We have to work so hard to figure out who we actually are outside of what the world has told us a man or woman should be; to step outside the male gaze, religion and media is so hard. Plus, these ideas are not new. Just dig into history. History is so fucking key to us getting perspective and shedding our egos about what we think are new ideas. \u2018Urania\u2019 was a zine that was first printed in 1916 by feminists who wanted to contest the \u201cgender binary and celebrate same-sex love\u201d.<\/p>\n

The non-binary people in my life are so influential to me. Being able to express yourself outside the gender binary is powerful and exciting, and it makes sense: it\u2019s only going to help us smash ceilings. My best mate and guitarist, Boom Buratto, is one of the most influential people in my life and their perspective and philosophies are hugely important to me. We\u2019ve been through sexism, feminism, homophobia, the music industry, world politics, relationships. They constantly do the work to break down the world they were raised in, while also respecting so much about history, family and their homeland. Identity is emotional and a total wrestle. It\u2019s integral to me at this stage in my life to question things we have accepted as the norm, from gender to wedding practices to internet use habits, relationship expectations, monogamy\u2026 Even the makeup and clothes I wear, all attachments I\u2019ve been taught or influenced by. I believe the more union we can build between feminists and trans people, the safer and better we can make the world and be more free as humans. I\u2019m angry at feminism being dragged through the dirt when it comes to trans rights because there\u2019s such a fucking bond and union there. We can create a bigger space of there being a positive connection between feminists and trans people. I\u2019m working on a manifesto about feminism and trans people, because in the media we have these spokespeople that are the main focus of the trans feminist debate.<\/p>\n

I would love to briefly touch upon GLOW<\/em>, aka one of the best shows of all time that was, in one of the cruellest and most unjust decisions in history, cancelled by Netflix. In your recent piece for The Guardian<\/em> you said it saved your life?<\/h3>\n

There\u2019s moments in your career where you\u2019re like, \u2018That changed fucking everything.\u2019 I was dealing with my manager stealing from me and I was very frozen. I didn\u2019t know how I was going to have a music career and carry on. I\u2019m not from a background where I have an infinite supply of funds, so it put a grenade in my career. I was lost and confused. Then I booked GLOW<\/em>, but my confidence was in the gutter. Everything I\u2019d been through, from the media to this manager, I was like, \u2018It\u2019s my fault. You put it all on yourself.\u2019 Then I went into a wrestling ring with Chavo Guerrero and 14 female comedians. These women physically and emotionally lifted me over their shoulders. They\u2019re still my family, all of them. I know that\u2019s not accessible to everyone, but I cannot recommend that enough for building confidence.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s like what you said earlier about joining a community.<\/h3>\n

Yeah, you\u2019re a team. We trained like a sports team. We had such a deep bond and I think we always will. I laughed everyday until my abs hurt. We would be creasing, dying with laughter. It was one of the best times in my life. I\u2019ll always feel like I won something. I\u2019m like, \u2018I fucking got GLOW<\/em>.\u2019 Then I get to take away those relationships that I\u2019ll always have in my life. Bring back GLOW<\/em>!<\/p>\n

You were so iconic as Rhonda. In another universe, she\u2019s absolutely a vampire slayer.<\/h3>\n

Oh my god, Rhonda would be such a good vampire slayer in those outfits. Imagine how many vampires we could kill?<\/p>\n

Kate, it needs to be brought back for reasons pertaining to world peace. I mean, we live in a world where Two and a Half Men<\/em> ran for 12 seasons. Think! About! That!<\/h3>\n

Worst show ever.<\/p>\n

9 Sad Symphonies is out now.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n